Posts by Apostate Kate

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

and Thank You Honesty for re-opening an important subject that deserves another look.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

Is Jesus the sustainer of all things?

Col 1:17-He [Jesus] is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Heb 1:3-And He [Jesus] is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.

YES

Is Jesus the Savior?

Is 43:11-"I, even I, am the Lord [Jehovah]; and there is no savior besides Me."

Is 45:21-"Is it not I, the Lord [Jehovah]? And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me."

Hos 13:4-"I...the Lord [Jehovah] your God...there is no savior besides Me."

Titus 1:3-God our Savior

Titus 1:4-Christ Jesus our Savior

Titus 2:13-looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus

Titus 3:4-God our Savior

Titus 3:6-Jesus Christ our Savior

2 Pet 1:1-to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Is Jesus the sustainer of all things? YES, Equel in nature to Jehovah God.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

thanks for the answer. this has turned into an interesting thread and i applaude your willingness to communicate. one of the problem i'm having is i don't trust any of the translations and don't think any of them would stand up to the questions we often apply to the nwt.

Well think about it though...do we have the same problems with the writings of Josephus, Plato, or any of the old philosophers? 2000 years seems like a long time but it really isn't. We have I believe the LXX (Septuigint), there were 70 translators who had to agree on it. It is the oldest Greek Translation of the OT. We will see the quotations from the OT in the NT from this text. I use so many translations, and keep learning as much as there is to learn about them. The Cannon of Scripture had to undergo strict scrutiny for validity before being allowed to be part of the Bible. As far as the NWT, after all the errors I found in it, I don't consider it valid. The mystery men who made the changes to the NWT were dishonest and admitted they made changes because it "made sense to do so"~NWT

We have the KJ from 1611. We found the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947-1961 those are dated 250 BC to 70 AD. These are our oldest texts found. These fragments confirmed the KJV. There are about 40,000 fragments. Most are close to the Masoretic text but some follow the Septuigint. These are testaments to the validity of what we have today.

As far as the Trinity here are some more things to consider.

Is Jesus the creator of all things?

Gen 1:26-27-Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness..." And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him.

Is 44:24-Thus says the Lord [Jehovah], your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord [Jehovah], am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone..."

John 1:3-All things came into being by Him [the Word], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. [If Jesus was created, then he created himself]

Rom 11:36-God...For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

John 1:10-He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Eph 3:9-...God, who created all things...

Col 1:15-16-And He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born [cp. Ps 89:27, Gen 41:51-52, Jer 31:9] of all creation. For [Gr. because] by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created by Him and for Him.

Heb 1:8,10-But of the Son...He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end."

Heb 3:3-4-For He [Jesus] has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of a house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.

So even though the word Trinity does not exist in Scripture, it is used to simplify the fact that Jesus was equel in nature to God, subordinant in function. Which means for us that we can have a personal relationship with Jesus and need to according to the Bible. This runs throughout the entire Bible.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

typical trinitarian selective focus and selective narrow view.... you dont have the slightest idea what I was saying nor why, but you go off on totally irrelevant things first Dagon and Asheroth [female goddess, wife of YHWH according to some jewish myths] not Ashteroth, were both called ELOHIM just like YHWH was...and my point was that the hebrew word ELOHIM need not mean more than one person as some idiot trintiarians try to imply. your mental delusion gets you stuck on what is not important so you can selectively ignore what is important....

okeeeeeeeeeeey...well I'll pass on this discussion since my focus is on the cannon of Scripture which is important when discussing the Bible and if it tells the story of Jesus as being either a man, an angel, a vaporous spirit creature, or the Holy Son of His Holy Father, who is worthy to be glorified, praised, and honored as is the Father.... or not

28

So If You Could Be.....

by Legolas in

jw
friends

.

so if you could be on a tv show what show would it be?

one of the shows i would to be on is 'lost' and another is 'battlestar galactica'.

Apostate Kate

OH OH OH I wanna be on........

hhmmmm...............

lets seeeee...............

Deal or no Deal.

but it would also be nice to be on Dr Phil and ask him if I am normal, then if I am not he could fix me and Misses Dr Phil could give me makeup tips

what about the makeover show! Hey they suck your fat and lift your boobs and give you teeth for FREEEEE

im so conflicted i think ill just stay home

64

Boycott Tom Cruise and his Mission Impossible 3 movie!

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

the church of scientology is trying to censor comedy central because of the scientology south park episode!

please write to comedy central about the scientology episode!.

please express support for south park and denounce the way tom cruise is trying to censor south park!

Apostate Kate

Isaac Hayes Quits 'South Park'

By ERIN CARLSON, Associated Press Writer Tue Mar 14, 9:20 AM ET

Isaac Hayes has quit "South Park," where he voices Chef, saying he can no longer stomach its take on religion.

Hayes, who has played the ladies' man/school cook in the animated Comedy Central satire since 1997, said in a statement Monday that he feels a line has been crossed.

"There is a place in this world for satire, but there is a time when satire ends and intolerance and bigotry towards religious beliefs of others begins," the 63-year-old soul singer and outspoken Scientologist said.

"Religious beliefs are sacred to people, and at all times should be respected and honored," he continued. "As a civil rights activist of the past 40 years, I cannot support a show that disrespects those beliefs and practices."

"South Park" co-creator Matt Stone responded sharply in an interview with The Associated Press Monday, saying, "This is 100 percent having to do with his faith of Scientology... He has no problem — and he's cashed plenty of checks — with our show making fun of Christians."

Last November, "South Park" targeted the Church of Scientology and its celebrity followers, including actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta, in a top-rated episode called "Trapped in the Closet." In the episode, Stan, one of the show's four mischievous fourth graders, is hailed as a reluctant savior by Scientology leaders, while a cartoon Cruise locks himself in a closet and won't come out.

Stone told The AP he and co-creator Trey Parker "never heard a peep out of Isaac in any way until we did Scientology. He wants a different standard for religions other than his own, and to me, that is where intolerance and bigotry begin."

64

Boycott Tom Cruise and his Mission Impossible 3 movie!

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

the church of scientology is trying to censor comedy central because of the scientology south park episode!

please write to comedy central about the scientology episode!.

please express support for south park and denounce the way tom cruise is trying to censor south park!

Apostate Kate

Darn I was looking forward to seeing the part they filmed out here by the big windmills.

I'll gladly make the sacrifice for a good cause.

I'm not sure South Park is a good cause. LOL But if it means that much to ya, I'm in. He and the chef are being big babies. It's ok to make fun of Jews, Christians, Muslims, and crippled people, but not the great god of scientology. Did you know the chef was having a fit too? I forgot his name but he is scientology too.

8

Did the early Christian's put as much importance on disfellowshipping?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

as a witness, i remember that disfellowshipping, reproofing, disassociating, etc, were a huge issue in the congregation and took a lot of the elder bodies time and energy.

there was all the backroom meetings, the interviewing of witnesses to the crime, the late night discussions, the researching and so on.

i asked an elder one time, "did the early christians spend as much time as witness do today, on all this disciplinary action?

Apostate Kate

I think most of us reading this know the Scripture passage that the WTBTS uses to justify disfellowshipping. To paraphrase; a guy was doing the wild thing with his step mother, kissing and telling, and no one had the sense to tell him that this was not a good thing. You can take that incidence even out of the church and Dr Phil would have a few choice words for the two. It was kind of a no brainer that Paul should not even have had to address.

It is all about control. Fear inducing, and elders on power trips. Some elders were sweet kind and sincere but many weren't. I like the way Ray Franz puts it in Crisis of Conscience page 293;

"deeds of faith had to be spontaneous, not systematized or made to conform to a certain mold, just as acts of love should be spontaneous, not something performed out of mere compliance with some scheduled activity programmed by others"

I would add that the same goes for any type of disciplinary action. Especially since the word discipline comes from "to disciple"

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

the first character we meet in line one as Elohim and his attributes are given as maker of heaven and earth. [and while plural, this need mean nothing special as Dagon is Elohim as is Asheroth] this one is revealed to us as El Shaddai, Jehovah [YHWH]

Judges 16:23 Then the lords of the Philistines gathered them together for to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god, and to rejoice: for they said, Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand.

The Bible does NOT say the false gods of Philistines was the Creator.

Genesis 14:5 And in the fourteenth year came Chedorlaomer, and the kings that were with him, and smote the Rephaims in Ashteroth Karnaim, and the Zuzims in Ham, and the Emims in Shaveh Kiriathaim,??????????????????????????????????????

You can believe whatever but that's not in the Bible